People reference you as a design ambassador of our country. How does this weigh on you?

We are a very well loved brand.  I don’t want to sound arrogant, but what Sachin Tendulkar is to cricket, Sabyasachi probably is to fashion in India. This is one of the reasons peoples expectations of the brand is very high, there is a lot of pressure.

Coming from a middle class background, when you look at success stories like this, people try to own your success and your life because they think you are a yardstick for their own professional success, hopes and ambitions. It’s happens to anyone very successful in any industry; there is ownership from the people at large. It’s normal. I knew where I was taking my brand and was prepared for this type of pressure.

It can be said that with power comes responsibility – do you agree with this?

Hundred percent agreed. I am aware of my power and responsibility as well because I know where the brand stands in India and the pressures that come with it. It’s OK. I think it’s totally fair.

What kind of responsibilities do you think are these?

Firstly, people expect you to represent an entire subcontinent in a certain way. People also want you to excel time and again …all the time. If Sabyasachi does something to the public eye that appears mediocre, people feel very let down. It doesn’t affect me because it’s a part of being successful. Because when you say ‘with power comes great responsibility’ – the powers are also given to you by the larger public.

This strategy is to create a demand and supply for my craftsmen who are the base of my business, so that it becomes a sustainable business for them.

 What other keys areas are you responsible for as a designer?

In my own way, I preserve the textile heritage of India by creating awareness for my craftsmen and my work. A part of my job is to make sure I revive old traditions of India that have been forgotten or lost because it has not been economically viable. I make sure I don’t put my design ego into it and just revive things the way they were at one point in time by creating a more purist ideology within my customer. It’s a battle I fight by making crafts and tradition more commercially viable by exposing it to popular culture by putting my outfits on actresses. In India, Bollywood is a huge subculture with a very big following. This strategy is to create a demand and supply for my craftsmen who are the base of my business, so that it becomes a sustainable business for them.

The second thing, in my own little way, is to instill a sense of nationalism and indigenous identity within a customer who is grappling with confusion. Fashion can be a very unkind world because it makes a living feeding on people’s insecurities. As a brand we try to keep our customer secure by helping them find an identity that is very close to who they are.

I think the leaders in art and culture should encourage people to create their own benchmarks of luxury and intellectual property.

 “An identity that is very close to who they are”…according to who’s vision? Yours?

Yes, within my vision. If you look at the body of work the brand has, we are very compassionate towards our customer. I have never tried to create an imagery that is very hard for my customer to imbibe. I think that’s cruel, because you are constantly making people unhappy by hanging the carrot too far way. We try and foster a sense of confidence within our customer, one that says,  ‘you should celebrate yourself for whom you are – and you should not be embarrassed about where you come from”. We try and create a very global national identity for our customer.

What did you mean earlier by, ‘we are trying to create a more purist ideology within our customer”, what is this ‘purist ideology’?

India is currently a very confused nation. Because through the world of social media and cookie-cutter fashion we have moved away from what India stands for, which is; refinement, art, craft, sensitivity, culture, education, religion and spirituality.

When I look at a purist Indian movement as an art form, it has to encompass all of these ethos within a school of thought. What is happening in modern India is a mash of these and a lot of other things we are alien to. When I think about a purist Indian ideology, it comes from accepting who you are, where you come from and relying on your strengths.

if something which is beautiful is neglected by India and is picked up by someone from the West, suddenly everyone in India makes a mad scramble for something like that.

The Indian clothing industry is truly a torchbearer for the country India is. No other part of the world has such a strong sense of cultural, artistic and intellectual history that India has. I truly believe that a large part of global luxury has stemmed from this part of the country, and a lot of it used to stem from the purist school of thought of being ‘Indian’, which the West imbibed and gradually made their own. As an example, if something which is beautiful is neglected by India and is picked up by someone from the West, suddenly everyone in India makes a mad scramble for something like that. Case in point, when Gaultier turned brocade saris intro trousers, brocade suddenly had a big revival within India. Or when Diane Von Furstenburg put kholapuri’s on the runway in NY, suddenly everyone was selling gold lacquered kholapuri chappals here. Because we lack the purist thought of being Indian, I think we don’t understand the importance of being Indian in a global context. The world has always beaten us at our own game.  By asking people to imbibe the purist school of thought of ‘being Indian’, we are only trying to  tell them that they are leaders. I think the leaders in art and culture should encourage people to create their own benchmarks of luxury and intellectual property.

As a leader, how do you do you encourage people?

Whether it’s a filmmaker, musician or other, I have interactions with people and inspire them to find the true voice within. I am also on the board of NIFT (Nation Institute of Fashion Technology), I work with the Indian Design Board and I am the board of Lakme Fashion Week. I write and interact with a lot of younger people in the fashion community. I always inspire people to find their own voice because it’s very important for a country to succeed, not just an individual.

I’ve always felt Indians have been apologetic about their sense of perception and try to fit into a mold that’s been created by the West.

Where does your sense of nationalism stem from?

I’ve always been proud of being Indian, knowing that I come from a land which is very special.  When you grow up ‘middle class’, you grow up with a lot of dignity and self respect, because you don’t have much, that’s the only thing that you can fall back upon. The lack of money sometimes makes you very sloppy – or it instills a sense of great harmony within you. I’ve always felt Indians have been apologetic about their sense of perception and try to fit into a mold that’s been created by the West.

Your brand states that it “represents a comfort zone to global Indians and remains undestroyed through major socio-economical-political changes”.  What is the ‘comfort zone’?

The Indian comfort zone is just about being Indian. That is what our brand celebrates through texture, color and the way we present beauty. What I see with global Indians right now is a great paradigm shift, where they are seeking out the importance of being India. That is quite heartening. A lot of people say we buy Sabyasachi because it makes us feel special. I don’t think its so much about the clothes or the design – its about the basic premise that we ask them you be who they are and also, unapologetic about being Indian. When you have a leader stating that to you and when it’s socially validated, you feel so much happier.

We are Gods special children. We are creative, esthetic, sensitive and we have unique values. While the West has always emphasized on the peripheral – we have always emphasized on the core. Sometimes we look stupid to the rest of the world, we are far more superior in many ways. What we have doesn’t die out as the world changes. It’s a very organic revolution – by observation, introspection understanding how strong the Indian community really is. I don’t think I instill that in other people, I am only validating them.

What do you mean when you say ‘the West’?

North America and people who have not been fortunate enough to grow up with the kind of history we have.

I remember Oprah once asked me ‘what do you think about spirituality’ and I said, ‘for you guys it’s a luxury, for us it’s a way of life’.

There are so many parts of North America and countries in Europe with a very strong sense of cultural identity and history, not to mention contributions to art history.  How can you say Indians are more special?

The edge that India has from other countries is a very simple thing. This is a country where people have grown with value systems and a spiritual attachment …detachment is more like it. I remember Oprah once asked me ‘what do you think about spirituality’ and I said, ‘for you guys it’s a luxury, for us it’s a way of life’.  If you look at Indian fashion, a lot of Indian fashion has not changed over the years. In Japan, No one really wears the Kimono, in other countries the national dress is only worn on special occasions. In India we wear Indian clothing all the time. It is because we are so rooted to who we are and our sense of spirituality, down to those who have nothing is so strong, that its very difficult for globalization to shake us from our sense of self. I think where India scores above other nations – and I’m not stating that other countries don’t’ have strong heritage or culture – but what India has; even poverty, suppression  and political anarchy  have not been able to eradicate. Because we have a strong sense of self.

I am not anti-west, there are many things I admire about the west; designers, artists, other people that I hugely admire. My agenda is to have a healthy balance

I am not anti-west, there are many things I admire about the west; designers, artists, other people that I hugely admire. My agenda is to have a healthy balance with our clothing – one should wear both and not be apologetic about it.  I am not here to make a political statement. Because if you are wearing only western clothes or only Indian, it’s a bit skewed – I think a wholesome person is one who manages to imbibe both in their wardrobe.

Do you believe that in two or three generations everyone will still have a strong sense of ‘being Indian’ represented through wearing the national dress at such scale? This ‘middle class’ you speak of, they are the ones going to Bangkok to buy their flat screen TVs – they are the ones hungriest for change.

Everyone has to go through the aspirational curve to realize what is good and what is not bad. As they are on this curve, the infatuation with the West is shrinking at a far greater propensity than what used to happen. Yes, I am going to buy my flat screen TV and my iPhone5 but these are not going to hold my attention for too long.

What differentiates us is that we are far less material than the rest of the world in many, many ways. That sense of detachment is what keeps our sense of self alive. Any country which has had a strong sense of culture will have a reinvention phase, revolution and renaissance. After a really long time I see Indian taking charge – the sense of leadership which the country did not have for a very long time is happening now.

we have a very extensive copy market in the country,  so if I do a  Kanjeevaram collection one year, I know it would start in the copy market and begin reviving that craft

You speak about building a brand with a “very strong social perspective” – please explain what you mean by “social perspective”

We try and encourage our customers to accept themselves for whom they are, irrespective of caste, color, shape and size – our brand celebrates everything. We create a huge market shift for many people who live on the fringes of fashion, a lot of dyers and weavers who otherwise would have extinguished or shifted to other vocations. Our biggest job is to maintain the ecosystem of craftsmen, weavers, dyers and printers in this country.  We employ about 1100 people, through outside job working we employ another 35000 people.  The fun part is we have a very extensive copy market in the country,  so if I do a  Kanjeevaram collection one year, I know it would start in the copy market and begin reviving that craft. A lot of Benarasi revived because of our initiative – it was dying ten years ago. Between me and the market that copies me we create a whole lot of employment for people at the craft level.  A lot of the younger generation whom otherwise would have gone into other vocations now realize it can be profitable to stay in this system.

Have you seen that change across generations?  Reports indicate otherwise, that it’s yet to be seen in many craft areas whether or not they will thrive for the next generation.

I’ve seen it, it’s huge. It’s almost become a revolution right now. If that didn’t happen my brand wouldn’t have grown. I believe in inclusive growth; if the people who make you don’t grow with you, then the brand will never sustain.

Regarding Cannes, for the first time in years, the public and media in India had a strong reaction to a designer, which in itself is a positive change. What is your side of the Cannes story?

If you look at Vidya, she is one for the few actresses who broke the mold by not looking and behaving in a certain way, endorsing beauty products etc. She is very clear that her first job is about acting and not about her appearance. She openly says she does not like to be on display. She does say she has a social responsibility but she will not kill herself to achieve that. Because she has a responsibility to herself as well and if she’s not comfortable dressing a certain way, she won’t. When someone makes a statement like that – it is a strong, confident and rooted self that requires respect.

When an under-confident person is faced with a confident person, it can bring out the best and the worst because you are confronted with something that leaves you uncomfortable. When I look at the extreme reactions that Vidya evokes in people, I say: if she has found her comfort zone and she wants to stick to it then it’s absolutely fine. Fashion poses this sense that everything in life has to be about variety.  I keep telling them the most iconic things in the world only happen through repetition. Whether it’s Monroe’s red lips, Madonna’s crucifix or Rekha’s Kanjeevaram sari’s.

Because of the pressures of advertising, people expect too much and sometimes their expectations are illogical.

Because of the pressures of advertising, people expect too much and sometimes their expectations are illogical. Some of the comments I read about Vidya at Cannes read, “ I like Vidya but I wish she would change it up’ or, ‘ Why did she do the same hairstyle for three days?’. That’s an immature comment in the sense that; there is an Aishwarya Rai,  a Sonam Kapoor and a Vidya Balan – three different people with completely different ideologies – one does not have to be the other.  What happens with celebrities is we want to put all our hopes and failures onto them – saying  ‘this is who you should be’. But you have to realize, a celebrity is also a person who has to first be who they want to be. It can’t change by peer or social pressure.

India is going through a diverse movement and there are people who think that being purist Indian is regressive or alternatively, progressive. I think what she wore started off a dialogue between these two sects of people who are anyways at war with each other because it s a difference of ideology. What she did was expose the war between both.

Icons are developed over years of consistency – not over a week at Cannes. Whereas Vidya does tend to wear saris, there is no clear sense of style that she adheres too. For instance, her shoots with Vogue are a complete departure from that look entirely. There is no consistency in terms of an ‘Iconic Vidya look’ just yet. Do you think this lead to a misunderstanding of your efforts?

There were two things we could have done. We could have taken the showman’s route or a far more intimate route. Since she was going to be a part of the jury I wanted her to shine. The sad part of all this that backfired heavily on me was that it took away from her accomplishment. No one spoke about her being a part of the jury – instead they spoke about her sense of clothing. Or rather, the lack of it. That’s the only thing I regret – the only reason I wanted to take a quieter route with her was that it was her moment and I didn’t want it to be consumed by fashion. And Vidya is not the type of person who likes to be consumed by fashion. Except for the first outfit, the one with her head covered, we did not design her clothes from the point of view of being on the red carpet. She had a job to do and we wanted to make a functional wardrobe, not one that was red carpet heavy.

Covering ones head in India has not only been about respect to elders or subjugation to men – it has also been a sense of mystery. I think its very feminine and very decadent. When people begin pulling political agendas out of it – there is nothing I can say.

Her outfits became anything but understated.  There was still an opportunity within that esthetic to have diversity. And yet it was not chosen. Why was it consciously chosen to stick to the plan when the press in India was reacting so negatively?

I met people who were detached from fashion, a lot of them were very enamored with the way she was dressed. The fashion press in India wrote very negative things about her and I think when she covered her head, many looked at it as an act of subservience. That was humorous, because that same day when I was crossing the road near Buckingham palace there were people going for a royal visit and they were dressed up in their best – every singe woman was wearing a hat. In the Italian Riviera all the women wear scarves on their head. It’s a part of the culture. Covering ones head in India has not only been about respect to elders or subjugation to men – it has also been a sense of mystery. I think its very feminine and very decadent. When people begin pulling political agendas out of it – there is nothing I can say. They are entitled to their opinions. I am intelligent enough as a designer to not get into a sexist mode by saying covering your head means you are in subjugation to men in an international arena. The reason we did it was because it gave a very strong cultural identity to the clothing. She said, “when they look at me I want them to say, ‘here comes the lady from India’ ”. That’s why her head was covered. They pulled out their own agendas to slander her. Out there, the foreign media did not give it so much of a thought, they thought it was nice and different.

I won’t apologize for what she wore – because I think in the end she did me and my country very proud.

The other criticism was about how she appeared to be wearing a costume. It didn’t seem to be something she would naturally wear. Do you think that reaction was justified, between costume and red carpet dressing?

There are two things.  Firstly, a gown has become recognized as the standard in red carpet dressing by the fashion press. Isn’t the gown a costume? It’s a vestigial outfit you can’t wear everyday –  it’s the definition of costume. If a gown isn’t regarded as a costume and your national dress is – there is a little bit of hypocrisy at play. Somewhere down the line, if you think a national dress is costume then you are subjugating your own identity because you are embarrassed about standards being set by your own country.  I won’t apologize for what she wore – because I think in the end she did me and my country very proud.

Initially only some people come along, then the entire community comes along. When you start something because of novelty people say its very beautiful, then because of repetition they say they don’t like it anymore and start criticizing. If you hold you ground, then people will start introspecting – wondering why things are not changing and they begin to start understanding your ideology.

There is a very big disconnect between what the fashion press in India thinks and how Indians dress. The voice you read on the Internet is that of a minority – which has probably grown up on borrowed esthetics of the west.

It has been said that any press is good press. In fact, this week in Chandini Chowk – a store selling your knock-offs told me ‘Aaj kaal tho simple outfit or heavy jewelry chaal raha hai” – clearly a direct reference to the esthetic championed at Cannes. Is success in these terms what matters  – when it trickles down to the larger masses?

It’s a funny thing, all the knockoffs from Cannes are flying off the shelves. The copy market has caught on quickly and the clients like it. There is a very big disconnect between what the fashion press in India thinks and how Indians dress. The voice you read on the Internet is that of a minority – which has probably grown up on borrowed esthetics of the west. I am saying again, its an opinion they have because they have grown up differently from me, and I am not going to pull them down for it but I know what works for me, my brand and my customer… and what works for the market.

Do you think that because you are a powerful brand, people will buy whatever you create?

I don’t think so. The Indian customer at large is more product supreme than brand supreme. If they get a good product at a good price, they will come to you. The Indian consumer isn’t as brand conscious as the West. Today, if I didn’t give them a product that was identifiable at a good price, it wouldn’t translate into sales.

I would have made her more Indian than what she was

Looking back, would have done anything differently at Cannes?

I would have paid more attention to some saris because I wanted her to wear a Patan Patola and could not get my hands on one because time was short. If I had my way, I would have made her more Indian than what she was. A lot of people commented on the nose ring, the funny thing is that Tiffany’s is creating a line based on The Great Gatsby and the jewelry in focus is the haath phool, which is Indian. This is what happens all the time, the West picks up what we should celebrate and we are so caught up in our own internal agendas of ‘to be Indian or not to be Indian’ – that India always ends up missing the boat.

_________________

Sabyasachi Mukherjee is the Creative Director and Founder of Sabyasachi